HOW TO MAKE YOUR GOVERNOR HAPPY

[joel gopan]

There are two types of Gaskets that mount the Carburetor and Governor to the intake manifold, The one that mounts the Carburetor to the Governor has slots in it as there are special passages that are machined in the base ofthe Carburetor, and the top of the Governor. There are two more gaskets that are used and mount between the Governor and Insulator, and between the Insulator and Manifold. Thes are plain solid gaskets and do not have the two slotd. You can use slottet gaskets for all three positions. Be careful when removeing or installing the Bakelite Insulator, as they are fragile. I yse a jacknife blade under it to get it loose and WD-40 on the studs to let it slide. One must be careful when lifting it off or installing it not to cock it as it will break. You are SOL when it breaks as it cannot be repaired. I have a limited supply of these worthless critters on a shelf that make me rich when someone needs one. Mine come with the 3 gaskets. Do not install your Governor upside down, there is only one way that is correct, and that is with the Adjusting Screw Cap facing to the Firewall, and located nearest the Rocker Arm Cover. The tear drop shapped operating spring housing cover will also be facing the Rocker Arm Cover. If you are really nit pickey, you will note that one stud is longer than the other and has a hole drilled above the nut to put a wire and a Unique GM Marked Seal to prevent tampering. There is anothere Safety Wire and Unique GM Monogramed Seal that goes to the Adjusting Screw Cap. I have enough confidence in my work that I have sealed up my Carburetor and Governor Installation so that I can't monkey with it. I do have a limited Supply of these Seals for the Discriminating CCKW Owner that wants to hang a little jewelry on their Engine.
Joel

[armydriver]

Thanks Joel for the info. I have the right seals because a guy that I got my carb from sent them with the carb. His name is Joel Gopan.

[joel gopan]

I wouldn't buy from that cheap S.O.B. I've heard some awful stories about that guy. The closest he ever got to a Military Base was a place called Sammy's Surplus. And he's a big crook too, they are going to screw him into the ground when he dies. You still need a RH Running Board? I would rather ship it and price it from your end.
Joel

[pfarber]

Installing the govenor is quite easy... its actaully stamped with an arrow that says 'to carb' on it.

Correct gov on engine:



Other side:



Notice distinctive teardrop shape, and cap/saftey wire.

This is what you get if you are not VERY CAREFUL





Look similiar? Not to me.

[joel gopan]

The ORD9 SNL G508 15 January 45 is the parts book of choice for the majority of experience persons dealing with the CCKW 353, it has the best illustrations and its format is easiest to understand. What happened is that you failed to follow the information plainly illustrated by the parts manual. It says GM 2135779 GOVERNOR, ENGINE ASSEMBLY (CCW, CCKW) (superseded by Governor GM 2136480). It is plain as day, and it means that 2135779 is no longer issued and it is replaced by 2136480. This means that there was an upgrade and that the latter part is to be used. The reason for the change is most likely that 2136480 will be an improvement. It takes experience, and yours is limited to the your first CCKW. You have to learn to trust your Parts manual. It is doubtful at this late date 62 years after Governor 2135779 was superseded, that any NOS will exist on parts shelves. Gotta realize that in 1943 the CCKW Serial No. range was 200,000-300,000, and at the end of production in 1945, the serial no. range was 562,000, that means that a quarter million more CCKWs were produced that did not use Governor 2135779, which was a field replacement only,and not a governor that the CCKW left the factory with. It was explained earlier to you that 2135779 was discontinued for service. A GMC Service Bulletin dated Nov 1943 confirms this, and it also explains that a new Governor GM 2136480 supercedes it for replacement and is used for all production vehicles. Your SNL is the bible, it it is the official Parts Manual for that period and is reliable if followed. your GM 2136480 Monarch dated 1953 is just fine. I wish that I had some to offer. It may physically differ from the appearance of the King Seeley but as far as the Army is concerned it is correct.

Bottom line is that this part(GM 2135779) has been superseded and obsolete since 1943. It is at the least, unrealistic to believe that it will be a popular part found NOS on shelves 62 years later(I could check to see if I have a used one). Read your manual carefully, and trust it, as the information is genuine GI. I doubt that any 1950s SNL manuals or their changes would list the new contractor(Monarch) for the GM 2136480 Governor, it would only have been on record at Raritan Arsenal,Detroit Arsenal or the present Tank Automotive Command, these files have been heaved, and possibly may now be at MVPA. We can't get to them yet, as they have not set up their Library, it will be a few more years.
Joel

[joel gopan]

I notice that your carburetor does not have the standard throttle body on it for the original die cast carburetor, as has the Idle Air Mixture Screw on it.
Joel

[armydriver]

These are neat photos, Thanks.

[pfarber]

One more time to get the point accross (AND IT'S PLAIN AS DAY)

I ORDERED A SPECIFIC PART. I USED THE CORRECT PN FROM A CORRECT TM. The vendor said YES I HAVE THAT PART. What showed up was not the original part I ordered.

If this was for a 1984 Toyota then sure, whatever part is cheapest. But is was for an historic vehicle. Vendors *should* (I know never assume) that when you order a specific part, by partnumber, quoting the original make/year/model of the vehicle you want THAT part. If the vendor wants to substitute then FINE AS LONG AS THE CUSTOMER KNOWS ABOUT IT. Hell I could have probibly went to the local NAPA and got the post war part. But I didn't I dealt with a reputable vendor who *should* know better.

It is and was never about the engine running properly. The Idle air screw has nothing to do with the govenor (or not getting the right part etc). If you like I can put on the cast iron one, but still would have gotten the wrong govenor from the vendor.

I really don't understand why there is a 'circling of the wagons' whe its pretty obvious that the wrong part was sold when the right part was ordered.

Please tell me Joel, what else could I have done to assure that I got the right wartime part?

[pfarber]

I did look up the line item that said that the govenor was superceeded, by GM Part #. But the ORD dated 7/45 shows no pic of the 'new' govenor.

What does this new govenor look like?

I looked all over the govenor I got, NO GM PART # ANYWHERE.

[joel gopan]

All of the King Seeley governors look alike, the internals have specicific springs and valving specific to the individual application, the 2135779 would sometimes have the GM Number stamped on it, and it would have the King Seeley Model number V5S-122. I doubt you will ever find a new one. The Monarch is of different Manufactore and that is the reason it looks like it does. In my opinion the dealer did nothing wrong, and may have been familiar with the part being superseded, and followed the manual as any experienced CCKW parts expert would have. I was trained to read GI Manuals and would also have used the latter part.
I have found that the fun of owning a CCKW is also maintaining it the way the Army intended. It works for me as Army Maintenance is quite straight forward, and almost by the numbers, as the manuals are simple to read. It is fun being your own Motor Sargeant. The Army had a good system. In civilian life it is not against the law to make dumb mistakes , but the Army had Regulations against being stupid. There is a manual for most every topic.
These trucks were not new technology back in the 40s, the principles behind their design were engineering fact since the early 1900's. Engines, Springs, Differentials, Carburetion were all items that relied on the laws of physics,and improved as advanced technolgy improved metallurgy and manufacturing techniques. The Army tested these trucks to distruction at Hollabird, Aberdeen, Detroit Arsenal etc, and only after working out the bugs were they declared Military Standard, and mass produced. There were some items that gave concern as time whent on and the previous parts were superceded. The CCKW lasted in military service for over 50 years. Now is not the time to reengineer them as they were well designed in their original configuration. I notice a lot of owners doing little mods here and there, but they would not be necessary at all if scheduled PM were performed and seals changed along with mechanical tolerance adjustments made when needed. If you drive a wounded truck, it will fail you, same went for the horses that preceeded these trucks.

If I can ramble on.
I had an interesting instructor while attending the Machinists Course at the US Army Ordnance School at Aberdeen Proving Ground back in 62, his name was Mr. Rogers, and he was our instructor on Milling Machines and Shapers. He was in his 70s at the time and used to hand scrape the babbited engine bearings at the Cadillac Plant in 1912. I also shared lunch with the Chief of Ordnance at the Mess Hall, as our training Company provided Mess for the Wacs and Post Headquarters(we could sit with the Wacs and Officers if we asked their permission). Somewhere I have a pic of me standing on "Anzio Annie" the railway gun. Col Jarrett was in charge of the Ordnance Museum. I used to drink soda at the PX with a very young redheaded Officer from Iraq, who is now Card #5 on the most wanted list. His name is Ibraham Aldourhi. The guy with the pointed head that was seen handing Sadam, the Presentation Sword on TV.

Governor is the word, feel lucky you found a NOS one.

Joel

[pfarber]

I still can't believe that you think the POS that I got when I ordered the correct part is acceptable.

I KNOW, that with your experience, you would have had the same reaction as I when you discovered that you spent good money on a part only to have the seller NOT sell what you paid for.

You may not have it in you call BS when a bait and switch happens, but I do.

I hope that others have learned that even CCKW vendors, with all of thier insight, will swap post war parts (OBVIOUSLY POST WAR PARTS) yet call them 'correct' when they are not even made by the same company, have the same part number, or even the same appearance.

I will now have to seriously grill vendors, or simply not buy from them (ebay, YUCK! But at least you get a pic up front) because I know that this is not going to be the last time.

On to bigger and better things!!!!

[joel gopan]

You did not read your manual correctly, it plainly indicated it was superseded by GM-2136480. that means it was most likely not available as it was superseded around 1943, and was two years out of the system by the time your manual was released in 1945. We are now 60 years later and the part has been been out of the system for 62+ years. The manual indicates to use the Part Number that you were sent. The manual is correct, no body sent you a wrong part, you ordered a wrong part and got just what the manual lists as correct. You were lucky to find a NOS Governor, now your truck will perform to spec, if every thing else is in order. Some of this information is from my private Library, which has information on 5th Echelon Maintenance. Some of what is contained conflicts with the SNLs, but I consider it to be accurate, as it originates from the Technical Service Manager at GMC Truck and Coach Division, Pontiac Michigan.
Joel

[joel gopan]

Don't monkey with the Gov, as there are internal parts that are delicate, and have no replacements, there are springs and weights that must be calibrated by specialized tool kits, and do not attempt to clean by dipping in solvents.
Joel