Hello from Ottawa

[Canadian Gunner]

G'Day, I'm from the valley!

The Ottawa Valley, of course),and run a small military museum south of the city on Hwy 416 The Veteran's Memorial Highway near Kars, Ontario- see www.calnan.com/swords for a virtual tour of the museum.

I'm a serving artillery officer working in our National Defence Headquarters in the foreign military training shop where I hold down the Africa Desk when not spending 6 months of the year in that continent.

My personal interests are artillery pieces and the tractors that pull 'em but I've been known to acquire the odd support vehicle as used by forward observers, recce parties, ammo parties and command posts.

I recently became a CCKW owner as the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery towed 25 pounders and limbers with them in Korea (1950 to 53). We used hardcab, short wheelbase models with the bumperettes on the rear removed so that the tongue of the limber could swing 90 degrees each way.

My latest green thing is CCKW352 40236B1 and the current registration painted on it is USA 4171938-S. Not being well versed in US registrations, I have no idea if this is appropriate to the truck. Advice from more knowledgeable members of this forum will be warmly welcomed. She is currently in the UK awaiting shipping to Halifax, Nova Scotia and then to Ottawa. I hope to have her here by end May this year.

I look forward to posting here regularly... I am an active (when my duties allow) member of the Maple Leaf Up (MLU) forums dedicated to the Canadian Military pattern vehicles I am more familiar with.

Cheers and Ubique! (Latin for "Everywhere", the sole Battle Honour of the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery- shared with our fellow Gunners in the RA, RAA, RNZA, etc!

Mike

[armydriver]

Welcome Mike and thanks for the web site. I enjoyed the virtual tour of the museum. I hope you enjoy this site.

[Canadian Gunner]

Hi "Army Driver":

Thank for the kind words. I may make a pariah of myself when I repaint my 352.

The Canadian army deployed to Korea for the "UN Police Action" in 1950 and made a concious decision to only ship weapons, radios and specialised vehicles. Common dog vehicles would be purchased directly from US depots in Japan.

As a result, the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery (my regiment) found itself using hard cabbed CCKW 352s as gun tractors for the 25 pounder field gun instead of the right hand drive Canadian Military Pattern (CMP) field artillery tractors normally associated with the 25 pounder. To make room for the British standard towing eye (lunette) the buperettes of the CCKWs were removed making it an easy spotting feature. Interstingly enough, the ammo trucks were 353's with a mix of hard and soft cabs.

The vehicles retained their US stars on hoods and doors as the UN had agreed on this as a common recognition symbol as per the Normandy invasion but the Canadian Gunners painted the traditional and quite colourful Commonwealth arm of service badges and tactical signs on the trucks. Rather than confuse the accounting system by renumbering the purchased/leased trucks, the Canadians simply painted over "USA" on the hoods (in a slightly different or fresher shade of OD) and then stencilled "CDN" where "USA" had been. It was even in a different font so its quite distinctive when you see it.

I hope to post photos once I have figured out how.

Thanks again for the warm welcome!

Cheers! Mike

[Canadian Gunner]

Well, it finally arrived and I wish I could post a couple of pictures unfortunately I'm not computer savvy enough to understand the stuff about "hosting on another site"!

I have started the Canadianisation and will pull the bumperettes off the back end shortly so it can tow my 25 pounder. I have removed a number of add-ons that were not complimentary to the vehicle's history (huge modern turn signals, etc). She'll be ready for painting and markings as per 1 RCHA in Korea c. 1952.

I took the drivers' door liner off to see what what was jamming the window winder and discovered the track to be completely shot. Does anyone know where you can acquire the hard cab door parts like the cloth covered corrugated tin track that the window slides up and down in?

Cheers and Ubique! Mike

[Barry Churcher]

Hi Mike
If you send me the photos I will post them for you. I know Dirk in Holland has some new doors left and I think window regulators but not likely the parts you need. You could phone, email or fax is best. If he has anything you need that isn't too big it can come from his place in my container. Then you can just pick it up at my place. If you are talking about the fuzzy window track liner it is available from the aftermarket.
Cheers,
Barry

[Colin Britton]

Canadian Gunner,

Another large caliber long range sniper joins the group.....
Welcome to the group. I enjoyed the "tour" of your museum with your mascot. Nice museum and some nice equipment you have on display. Hopefully someday you will be able to get that RAM tank back to 100%.
Glad to hear your new baby reached its new home and destination safely. I know you will enjoy completing her restoration and getting her kitted out as a Canadian Korean War Artillery Tractor. Please share pictures.....
As a group there is a good range of knowledge of alot of HMV's that you will be able to access here in the site which should be helpful in your museum persuits and more so with CCKW's of course.
I'm glad to hear that the local community is supporting you museum with the grant for the restoration of your halftrack. Good, nice to see.
Good luck and enjoy you GMC.

[Canadian Gunner]

Hi Barry and Colin:

Thanks for the encouraging words! I am splitting my attention between the CCKW and the Windsor carrier that arrived in the same container!

Barry: when is your container coming from Holland? I might be interested in those new doors from Dirk and there is another Dutch vendor selling 1/2 track road wheels... I need a few!

Colin: thanks for the ATW... I spent four years in the Special Service Force (SSF) a re-incarnation of the FSSF, back in the early 80's and about 35 pounds ago! Too many days in the bush and way too many days deployed in places far from home... of course my current posting has me spending half the year in Africa teaching African Union peacekeepers so I guess the gypsy lifestyle is simply a way of life for old SF soldiers!

I have an M20 in the yard (not mine... I'm looking after it for someone in exchange for displaying it in our little museum). I'll track down the serial number if you and John Cliche are doing up a data base on the beasties!

Still trying to source the fuzzy window edging... I know some place out there must stock the stuff for all the civie restorers!

Cheers and Ubique! Mike

[Colin Britton]

Well start taking pictures of the CCKW and the Windsor and send them to Bill so he can post them on the site. We all want to see whats in the box and get a look at your new "toy's"!

[Barry Churcher]

Here is Gunner's new toy on the way to the Liverpool Docks.



Next stop Canada



Cheers,
Barry

[SpookyDad]

Couldn't you get any more stuff in the container???

She is one nice looking truck.

Neil

p.s. I served most of my time in the Canadian Forces at CFB Kingston. We would do road trips to Ottawa all the time. It is a pretty area of the country.

[Colin Britton]

Nice looking CCKW! Looks like it had a good home before Gunner bought it.
What are/were the PA speakers for mounted above the pioneer tools on the left side of the cab for?

"And we have a loudspeaker, when we go into battle we play music, VERY LOUD. It kind of...... calms us down." (Oddball: Kelly's Hero's)

And what are all the goodies in the back?

NICE TRUCK GUNNER! You did good!

[Barry Churcher]

"Alpha Charlie"- the third gun ('C') in 'A' Troop, 'D' Battery, 2nd Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, Korea, 1951

Mike's photo

[Barry Churcher]

Canadian Gun Tractor in Korea c. 1952. Note: in both these Public Archives of Canada photos, the rear bumperettes are missing from the CCKW 352's. This was common practice on Canadian used prime movers in order to allow the short tongued 25 pounder limbers to hook in and still have some swing space for turning!
Mike's Photo

[Colin Britton]

Barry,

Great picture!!!! That is a nice combat photo of a CCKW doing its job in harms way. An excellent referance picture.

Thanks for sharing that with us.

Shot out!

[Canadian Gunner]

Hi Guys!

Barry: Thank you for posting the photos for me... I will make the effort to learn how to do it myself!

Spooky Dad: The container was chock a block full... I could have squeezed iin some more stuff had I built a platform to put on top of the Windsor carrier which was stuffed in front of the CCKW. Both vehicles were crammed with spare parts and other bits and bobs, including a Barr and Stroud Range Finder to go with my 1943 40mm Bofors gun.

Doc: The goodies in the back include a 4.2 inch mortar trailer that came with the Windsor carrier. It was built by S&S Automobiles in 1943 or 44 and came in two versions: one to carry the mortar tube, base plate and tripod and the other to carry lots of ammo. The 4.2 inch mortar consisted of two Windsor carriers each towing a trailer as above and carrying all the tools and kit, loads of ammo plus the six to seven man detachment. BTW, S&S changed their name after the war and are now known as "Jaguar"!

The PA system speakers were added by the previous owner, a chap in Bristol named John James. He played Glenn Miller type music when he was in parades and at events! A life-long trucker, he kept "Edna" (named for his charming wife and so it shall remain) in good shape with regular maintenance and lots of lube... the truck that is, not his charming and very tolerant wife!

So far, as part of the Canadianisation of the old girl I have removed the PA speakers (they will go to good use on independent tripods) and the large modern turn signals, which have been replaced with Corcoran-Brown ones from a 1949 CJ2A... they use the same body as the blackout markers and look the part! I also refurbished a very art-deco looking turn signal controller from the same era and fitted it to the steering column it in place of the European style dash switch. The "USA" on each side of the hood have been painted over and "CDN" added as per an earlier post... I'll eventually get the correct census number painted on (thank you to Rolf in Norway for helping track that down). The rear bumperettes are proving to be a lot more work than anticipated due to a combination of corrosion and metric bolts which must have been used during a rebuild while in Norwegian service. (I now have positive proof of the Norwegian service as the brakes have a warning sticker in Norwegian explaining that the brakes have been converted to silicone!).

She'll be going for her first public outing this weekend as a local collector is hosting his third annual Beer Bash and Barbeque (BBB3). The 25 pounder hasn't arrived yet so it'll be towing our six pounder anti-tank gun (gotta have something to go 'booom' at a picnic!)

Still have to figure out why the brake lights are not coming on, deal with a little rust and get the Canadian formation and tactical signs painted on. Last but not least is a overhaul of the bows and other wooden bits so I can get the canvas back on her!

Question for winch equipped CCKW drivers: Does the d*mn winch control lever dig into the back of your calf when you are driving? It is so annoying that I am considering pulling it, heating it and bending it about 30 degrees to the left... won't effect the function but will make long convoy drives much more pleasant!

The adventures never cease!

More photos to follow!

Cheers! Mike

[SpookyDad]

Canadian Gunner

I was kidding about the amount of stuff in the container. I looked at the picture and was struck by how close the width of the truck was to the inside of the container.

Did you ship the driver over with the container? How did he get out?

With my luck, the truck would have been a 1/2" too wide rather than a 1/2" spare.

Neil

[Canadian Gunner]

Hi Neil:

I drove it in (and out here in Ottawa). The cab door opened enough for me to get out, crawl over the hood and slid out underneath the truck (no room over the cab roof!

We had to pull in the mirrors and squeeked in with 1.5 to 2 inches on each side!

Cheers, Mike

[Colin Britton]

Mike,

Well it sounds like you made the most of the 40' container and got your monies worth to get all those goodies home.
But I must admit I had to look up what a Windsor carrier was, I was not aware the Universal carrier or Bren Gun Carrier had a different Canadian name.
John Bizal from MIDWEST MILITARY make's a whole bunch of repro stuff now for the Universal Carrier since his restoration of one he rescued off an iland somewhere in Canada. See his web site has pictures of the restoration. He will be a good sorce of "stuff" for your Windsor project.
But firing a 81mm mortar out of a Windsor must be hard on those rather light duty suspensions.....
And it's kinda funny that my Kelly's Hero's quote was almost spot on with playing music. It was just ment to be funny.
As for the winch PTO lever I have no issues with my leg hitting mine, but I have an open cab and they have more room compared to the closed cab versions.
And if you dont mind my asking what was the cost of shipping the box across the pond?
Good stuff and please share pictures of all the neat new toys you brought back home.

Splash.

[Canadian Gunner]

Hi Doc:

The Windsor carrier was Canada's answer to feedback from the troops on problems with the Universal carrier. It was stretched a good three feet and a full two wheel bogie was added in place of the rear singleton.

With a bit of over-simplification there were basically four main versions of the carrier family made in North America, 3 in Canada and 1 in the USA:

Mk I*- basic design, 3 road wheels and 2 headlights on the fenders;
Mk II*- upgraded, still 3 road wheels and 1 headlight on the gunner's side;
Windsor- stretched, 4 road wheels and a 2 speed rear axle; and
T16- US production, 4 road wheels, tiller bar steering and all welded hull.

Total production in Canada was around 34,000 of all Marks. T16 production I would have to confirm but it wasn't alot as they were only for Lend Lease. The USMC used a few in the Pacific islands. Canada was partner with the US in Lend Lease and paid for the kit it got through US sources by trade in raw goods or in cash.

A good source for comparing the various carriers is:

http://www.mapleleafup.org/

go to the vehicle section and you'll find a whole bit about carriers with photos.

The 4.2 (120mm) mortar was never fired from the carrier... it was towed in the trailer and set up on the ground. You absolutely right, the recoil would have crushed the carrier's light weight suspension as well as the bouncing would have made the adjustment of the target nigh on impossible!

Thanks for the link to John Bizal... I have long admired the high quality work he does and all with one arm!

The container ended up costing over $5500 due to delays and additional inspection fees I hadn't banked on. Stiil, a good deal I suppose as I got my toys home in excellent condition. RORO is cheaper but every Tom, Dick and Harry can tinker with your stuff!

I'll take a photo of my leg/lever interface problem!

Cheers! Mike

[Degsy]

Figure quoted for American T16 carriers in an article just published in Classic Military Vehicle is 13,893, it also says Canada built 'nearly 30,000
Universal carriers and 5,000 Windsor carriers'.