Trick to removing countersunk screws on the rear wheel hub?

John V Cliche · Post by **John V Cliche** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:14 am

Neil

The lug/stud is part of the HUB not the DRUM
Striking them will render them useless

Jack the wheel on the opposite corner,( of the tandem) or all of them ,or remove the drive shafts.

John

SpookyDad · Post by **SpookyDad** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:16 pm

Yes I am aware the lug is part of the hub. I hit the lug lightly to see if the wheel would turn. I didn't mean to give the impression I was wailing on it to remove the drum.

I switched to the other side of the truck to jack up the other wheel. Before jacking, I tried using a breaker bar on the wheel nuts. I can't believe how tight they are. I broke a harbor freight 24" bar. Not too surprising but when I bent a Craftsman 3/4" drive slider bar on them, I was getting frustrated. I tried a hefty air impact wrench but no luck either.

Is it ok to heat the wheel nuts too? I don't want to change any heat treatment on them if they have any.

Neil

awg · Post by **awg** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:17 am

dont forget they rotate in the OTHER DIRECTION.

dont wish to imply u r stupid.

i forgot this when i got my truck and removed wheels for first time.

used a 6ft breaker bar, and snapped stud!

had to replace stud

even though it is in the manual.

yes clockwise to undo, as opposed to counter clockwise as normal on the other side!

SpookyDad · Post by **SpookyDad** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:40 pm

You know I read that in the manual too. I will have to double check I was turning them the right way.

Another thing to go in the CCKW for Dummies book that Bill is writing.

Neil

Bill_Wolf · Post by **Bill_Wolf** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:12 pm

SpookyDad wrote:You know I read that in the manual too. I will have to double check I was turning them the right way.

Another thing to go in the CCKW for Dummies book that Bill is writing.

Neil

Yes...

It will be a New York Times best seller....only because the Times is going bankrupt.

Neil....Bolts are threaded one way on one side and the wrong way on the other.

Unless of course they received a replacement, and the backward thread studs were not available, then you may have them mixed as on one of my Chevy Fire Trucks. (3 lefts and a right.) You really have to look at the threads closely to be sure.

I always used "Righty Tighty...Lefty Loosey" to remember on/off on a bolt. Those words of wisdom would not always pertain here.

Bill

SpookyDad · Post by **SpookyDad** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:13 pm

Well I am very embarrassed. The lug nuts are the opposite thread. I switched direction and they came off. The two I inadvertainly tightened were a little stubborn to get off.

Fortunately no broken studs, just a bruised ego.

Jacking up the other wheel allowed me to rock the stuck drum back and forth. The stuck brake pad let go and the drum came off without much complaining.

Inside I found a broke return spring and one pad worn down quite badly. Luckily not worn through and the drum isn't scored. The brake cylinder had one cap loosened when I adujusted the bakes from the outside. The other end appears to be stuck. Given the lack of wear on that brake pad, I am guessing that side has never engaged. I am going to have to pull it apart to see how bad it is.

Can the brake shoes be relined or do I have to replace the whole thing?

Neil

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:14 pm

What happens sometimes when the spring breaks is that one shoe will go out to contact the drum. In some cases it will act like a one way clutch and allow the wheel to turn one way, but not the other.

When rebuilding ALWAYS REPLACE THE SPRINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep on under the seat for emergencies too.

retro-roco · Post by **retro-roco** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:29 pm

SpookyDad wrote: ...Can the brake shoes be relined or do I have to replace the whole thing?

Neil

Any competent "old school" brake shop, particularly one that deals with large trucks, can re-line the shoes. NOS brake lining material is available inexpensively (try e-pay), or they can just use new material. The lining is rivited to the shoes, and should be cut to match the radius of your drums. They'll probaly ask you to bring in your shoes AND drums for that reason...

SpookyDad · Post by **SpookyDad** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:43 pm

Does anyone know what is the thickness of the rear brake shoe pad when it is first installed?

I want to measure the thickness of the other pad. There is no sense in replacing it if it is the same thickness as new. If it is down any amount, then both should be replaced.

Neil

John V Cliche · Post by **John V Cliche** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:44 pm

Always replace shoes in pairs regardless of how much lining is left, period.
Remove all the shoes from all 6 wheels and replace them, do it ONCE and do it RIGHT
VoV has relined shoes avail, you can send you cores for credit....or you can have a jobber do them as well ( NAPA did some for me prior to VoV having them )
You should also have your drums turned before reassembly, this will provide the best brake service and LIFE ( of the shoes)possible
With new springs and new wheel cylinders included, you will never have a worry about brake issues again.....provided the "technician"

did the job by the "book"

John

Bill_Wolf · Post by **Bill_Wolf** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:18 pm

I completely agree with John on this issue. (It has been bantered about many times before on this and other boards).

New or rebuilt Shoes and wheel cylinders, always new springs, and a master if the slightest bit questionable. I would also check and repack the bearings on the hubs and do new hub oil seals (inner and outer) to keep the grease and oil off your new shoes.

You are talking $1000 here but it is money well spent on piece of mind.

Bill

SpookyDad · Post by **SpookyDad** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:38 pm

Well I have already put in a new master and rebuilt the hydrovac. The 2 wheel cylinders that I have looked at are frozen. I have them sitting in diesel fuel right now to clean them up. I have a feeling they are beyond a quick hone and clean-up.

I saw on VoV there is a brake cylinder rebuild kit. What is included in one of those?

I haven't looked at the rear axle yet so I am going to have to pull those wheels off. I am not expecting any better news there.

I also noticed the rotary adjuster disks looked pretty rusty and worn. Is there a source for those?

Neil

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:58 pm

Jim Carter has the springs for $7,95 last time I looked

Once a year, run the rear adjusters back and forth to the original position after oiling the spring under the nut.

A rebuild kit would include the rubber cups and center spring.

The rear adjusters are swadged on. They are really not replaceable. I have done one, but lost the tension in the spring doing it (heat from welding))

John V Cliche · Post by **John V Cliche** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:16 pm

dr deuce wrote:
The rear adjusters are swadged on. They are really not replaceable. I have done one, but lost the tension in the spring doing it (heat from welding))

I know what you mean

I ruined 1 also.....but....when I made a little tool sort of like a pickle fork or split fender washer, to push the spring away and act as a heat sink, I carefully brazed ( as original ) it together, and didn't remove the temper in the spring

John

SpookyDad · Post by **SpookyDad** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:13 pm

dr deuce wrote:Jim Carter has the springs for $7,95 last time I looked

Do you know what the part number is? I looked on the site but couldn't find anything.

Neil

Bill_Wolf · Post by **Bill_Wolf** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:11 am

Neil,

Top of the left page

http://www.oldchevytrucks.biz/34_46/t1.asp?page=66

PN is ME-148

You might want to pick up some of those "warped washers" too. PN MEB 324 and MEB 325

Bill

dr deuce · Post by **dr deuce** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:32 am

Jim Carter pn ME 148 This is the return spring for a 40's Chevy 1.5-2 ton truck. It is the same. Replace all of them and keep one under the seat as an emergency part.

http://www.oldchevytrucks.biz/34_46/full.asp?page=66

SpookyDad · Post by **SpookyDad** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:16 pm

Thanks for the part numbers. I found them. Jim Carter's website is not the easiest to navigate is it?

Not much has happened around here because I have been flat on my back for a week with the flu. I can't remember being this sick in many years.

Neil