DRIVING IN SAND-HOW DID THEY DO IT???

[joel gopan]

Drive all those CCKWs off the sandy beaches.

I do not have a scanner, but have plenty of WWII books showing equipment at the landing sites, and little, if an "vehicle recovery" operations. CCKWS were not the only trucks, and just about all WWII combat vehicles were represented. What was the secret to mobility in sand?

[joel gopan]

ARMY MOTORS had some excellent articles by Francis Blake about operations at the Desert Training Center, Ft Irwin, California.

[dr deuce]

Depends upon the sand.

Some compacts well and will support a car

Some is loose and fly-away

If you go to Lowell in March, look up Paul Baillargeon and ask how manu different types of sand his sand and gravel operation sell. They even have a specialty sand just for airports that will stay where put so that it will not be injested by jet engines.

Not all sand is created equal

[joel gopan]

One of my military specialties was to infiltrate and take soils samples of territory that would be involved in military operations, and these would be tested for their load bearing properties. I used to design highways and test highway materials. The study of load bearing qualities of soils has been an occupation of Geologists and Civil Engineers since George Washington in this country, and has been practiced by ancestors the world over for a couple thousand years. They sort of screwed up their calculations on the Tower of Pisa though. The military was well versed on designing mechanized equipment compatible with the types of soils/pavement starting with the wagons. The problems really became evident with the advent of mechanized transportation such as the solid tired FWD Trucks of WWI, and by the mid thirtys the modern 4X4 and 6X6 drive train design was well on its way. The Army then started setting standards for the 4X4 and 6X6 types they would adopt. WWII brought it to its peak. These trucks were perfected by testing their capabilities on all terrain and in all climates. You will note in your TMs and on the dashboard Data Plates for your vehicles, the suggested tire pressures for Sand, Snow and Hard surfaces. The Military had this all figured out before the vehicles were approved as Military Stand and production. The Drivers Schools took careof proper driving technique (the Military has a way of training GIs to function in a military manner) That means drivers were trained to drive Army Trucks the way they were designed to perform. Property of soils was not unknown to the WWII Engineers that designed these trucks.

As for what Paul Baillargeon may sell at his Sand and Gravel Business, the hey would be custom blends of different gradations of sand and soil to arrive at the property the customer orders. The Army did not have that luxury as they navigated enemy territory

When I was at Aberdeen in the early 60s, the Ordnance Dept was testing Motorcycles for the Italian Army, and teaching #5 on the deck of cards (Ibrahim Aldourhi) of the most wanted Iraquis how to maintain US Equipment at the Ordnance Officers Orientation Course (OOOC)


In a nutshell the Army designed the 6X6 to fit the needs of an all wheel drive combat vehicle, and then trained their drivers to operate them as designed.

Getting monotonous isn't it, but it is free.

[Degsy]

I have seen a no. of pics of vehicles being recovered on WW2 beaches usually by pushing or pulling with a bulldozer. All the Normandy beaches
were surveyed before the landings by men who swam ashore at night to
take measurements and soil samples. One of the men who did this was the son of the Ogden family who owned the famous fishing tackle shop in London, he solved the problem of taking measurements by using a fishing reel loaded with sand coloured line marked at intervals with beads. A German sentry tripped over the line one night but ignored the 'fishing line'
and failed to notice the two intruders lying motionless within feet of him.
One of the results of these surveys was that Hobart's Funnies or AVRE's
carrying a bobbin, fascine or bridge etc was landed in the correct place to deal with soft sand,a ditch or sea wall etc. Incidentally all these different inventions were offered to the Americans but the only one they utilised was the DD tank. They saved many lives on the British and Canadian
beaches and it seems strange that a nation who had so taken to mechanisation should put unprotected men when specialised armour was available to do the job.

[joel gopan]

And in some situations, the CCKW has more traction in reverse. It is all relative to training, driving skill, and the nature of the load being carried. All of the CCKWTMs available to the WWII Driver have information on operation of the CCKW, along with various FMs (Field Manuals) for the WWII Wheeled Vehicle Driver.

[lacoda56]

Not trying to stir things up, but is there any mention of lowering air pressure in tires in the cckw manuals? I know that mud and snow tire pressure is stamped in one of the dash plates on my M135, but that's from a few years later.

[joel gopan]

I will try to explain in the following post.

[joel gopan]

Tire pressures were not always placarded on the dash of WWII trucks, but Drivers and Maintenance Personnel were provided manuals and training on proper operation of equipment. There we TMs on Care and Maintenance of Tires. These Tms made Maintenance Personnel and Drivers aware of situations that required adjustment of tire pressures. Quoting from one of these manuals; "inflation pressure may be reduced by about 50% for muddy, rocky, orsnow-covered terrain: by about 60% for lengthy operation in soft sand; and by about 70% in operationover sand dunes, however, pressures below 10 psi are not reccommended. Tires should be inflated to normal pressures as soon as the tactical situation permits." TM-31-200; NOTE: Desert operation requires lower air pressures." "See training Circular No.2 War department, 1943."
The Army provided training material for everything they issued.

[dr deuce]

I think most people know of the suggestion that you lower the tire pressure in sand. Lowering by 60% (40% x 55 psi) is 22 psi. which I am sure would help a cckw or chev greatly in sand. In WW2, how far would you have to go under hard surface conditions to find a bigger truck with air or a LeRoi and how long would it take while people might be shooting at you....

Problem is how far would you have to drive (us today, not WW2) to get to someplace where you could reinflate the tires.

Didn't they have a compressor (rare) option like the Jeep did for the CCKW?

[joel gopan]

Dr D, your concerns are valid,but the Army had this all figured out, all one has to do is research these situations. As the army became mechanized it became aware of the situations and evolved from the solid tired Liberty Trucks of WWI to the trucks of the late thirties which had similar drive trains to the WWII types. Next step was to standardize on the types used in WWII. All the time they were perfecting the trucks they were also developing all terrain driving techniques and writing training manuals in order to train the drivers to drive the world'd largest all wheel drive fleet. Fleet management by the Army was quite successful, don't you think. Army training was great, civilian collectors are limited in the training necessary to properly operate most MVs. The proof in the pudding is the down hill slide that MVs get at fire departments and forest service use. Right? Id does not tale long for the lack of Military maintence technique and driving skills to become evident. Example; winches, they soon become broken as the operators try to use them without training and crumple the front bumpers after substituting bolts for shear pins. What would be nice is a time warp in which all MV collectors could attend basic training to get into the correct frame of mind, and then proceed to the training schools on their vehicles. All the soft terrain issues are minimized with proper training. It also helps to use the correct vehicle for the right job, something a collector cannot always do with a limited fleet. If you have observed, WWII combat operations did not have the luxury of freeway driving to where the combat was going on, dipping their wheels into mud or sand, and then go back to the barracks via the Interstate for the night, they went from "A" to "B" in the most difficult of operating conditions, there was strength in numbers, with winches, recovery vehicles, and plenty of manpower to get the job done. There is a difference in a Motorpool of One and the size of the fleet the Army operated. There are plenty of surplus WWII TMs and FMs that spell out proper driving technique. All one has to do is read them and learn a few time tested techniques.
Think Army.

I have no problems with the way WWII Trucks were designed, they performed their job well, Just look how long the CCKW was used by the Military world wide.

[joel gopan]

There were air compressors at company level (Gasoline powered), and more available at battallion level, plus all wreckers, and high speed tractors carried an air compressor. They did what they had to do to get through. Maybe just a few vehicles had to prepare for soft going, and then were used to tow or winch the others through bad going. Imagine having to dissassemble your CCKW and have a bunch of Coolies carry it piece by piece over a mountain. War was not easy.

[dr deuce]

All I can say is in 50,000+ miles in a CCKW cargo truck, it has never failed to get me where I wanted to go and home again! NEVER.

I must be the exception to the rule; no formal military MV training maintainence or operating

It doesn't take a genius to operate and maintain a CCKW.

[Degsy]

I understand that Joel with his long military service would obviously follow his training but there are also many others who like Dr D who have long experience of operating vehicles and know how to maintain them. Most
MV enthusiasts consult TM's and take great pride in their vehicles and in
maintaining them correctly.

[joel gopan]

I have no probs with MVs. Military maintenance works, and why not be accurate in answers to questions on CCKWs.
The Army has a solution concerning when a 4X4 or 6X6 does not have adequate traction in sand, or snow, it is Tire Chains, the Army Issues them for all Combat Vehicles, They were issued with the CCKW to use when needed. Just because a vehicle gets stuck, whether it be from difficult terrain or an operator lacking experience, it's design should not be condemmed. The following quote is from an Army FM. "Chains are generally necessary in mud, sand, snow or slush ice." Wheeled vehicles are not perfect and there comes a time that tire chains must be used. It is not fair to condemn the WWII CCKW because it does not always go where it is pointed, the Army recognized that and issued chains. They are also issued with today's Military Vehicles. Even WWII Half Tracks used Chains on the Tracks. It is best to install them on all drive wheels to prevent unnecessary strain.

Chains are available to collectors, some dealers have GI Issue available. GI issue fits better.

[dr deuce]

I have a complete set of NOS chanis for my CCKWs. They will probably never be used by me.

I do not condem the CCKW et.al. I just report their limitations as I have observed them. On the contrary, I tell people thet the CCKW and Chevy are about the best WW2 HMVs that the average person can own. Back then, GM engineering was so far ahead of the rest. They are easy to maintain, very forgiving and fun to drive. You are not cramped like you are in a WW2 Jeep. You do not run into anti-freeze when you pull an intake manifold bolt out. It is easy to do a valve job on. etc.

[armydriver]

I agree with you Doc on the fun part. I have restored and driven 5 MB/GPW's and 1 M38 and I had rather drive my CCKW than the jeep any day of the week. It is fun and an attention getter.