Open cab, non-winch... no really popular?

[pfarber]

My CCKWs' frame tells me its is configured correctly, open cab, split axle, no winch, cargo box.

Yet even in the TM's there is no picture of the non-winch open cabs.

Whats the deal with non-winch trucks? Just not popular?

[joel gopan]

Good question, Paul. Guess you gotta go to your glove box and pull out TM9-801 and look at pages 11,12,311,405, 420,467,468 etc, and all of the earlier TM10s. Page 13, TM9-801 describes the differences among models. While researching your question, it was noted that there are no specific instructions on how to drive a CCKW without the winch.-I'll take that back, Paragraph 18, Page 43, TM9-801 has instructions on how to hand Crank a W/O Winch model along with Figure 23. If I were going to buy another CCKW for driving, it would be a non winch model SWB as they are lighter in weight and it is like putting sneakers on your CCKW. No more of that Ring Mount and excess baggage stuff for me.
Joel

[armydriver]

My open cab is a nono winch model, but then it was earmarked for the Army Air Force and in most photos I have seen of AAF trucks they were non winch types. I assume the operating conditions on airfields were not nearly as extreme as in the field. In fact 4X6's make more sense on airfields.

[dr deuce]

If I remember from Bryce Sunderlund's article correctly, they made 234,000 CCKW as LWB non-winch (both open and closed cab)


Steve AKA Dr Deuce

[joel gopan]

Jim, your truck was issued on an Army contract, WWII USAAF was part of Army, and the truck may have had a history of many units before its final resting place.
Joel

[bobc]

Of the 4 CCKWs I bought three were non winch models and one of those was an open cab,but Joel is right it's like a ring mount,it just adds that extra touch,kinda like a water bucket on the jerry can or a rope on the jeep bumper,not really needed but still wanted by many collectors. If I could find a winch setup for the chevy I'd probably install it when I do my open cab chevy.

[dr deuce]

There are a couple holes on a CCKW and Chev that you cannot install the rivets on when trying to make a winch model out of a non-winch model.

You also have to cut the end of the frame off. It is a one-way proposition!

They started out at the factory with a winch side frame rail or not. The winch extension had to be riveted on before the crossmembers linked
the two side rails together


Steve AKA Dr Deuce

[pfarber]

ORD9 SNL G-508 pages 18-28 show almost every varient of the CCKW, EXCEPT open cab, 353 no winch.

You would think that the PARTS BOOK would at least show they existed!

[bobc]

I just looked at my tm-9-801s april 43 and april 44,the 44 edition shows only open cab trucks and they all have a winch,except the tankers none of them do,the 43 shows some truck with out a winch,I guess that is why we need to get a copy of edition so we can get official picture of what the government was using at a specific period. But then again as soon as it hit the troops in the field anything was possible.

[joel gopan]

I would file a discrimination complaint to General Motors truck and Caoch Manufacturing Co. Pontiac Michigan. seriously, I do not see what the problem is. The operation/maintenance of all CCKWs are well covered in the manuals.,they are all the same truck except for cab style, the location of the basic controls are the same, the Army had Wheeled Vehicle driving Schools that were very effective in teaching soldiers how to drive and it has laws about behaving stupid and enforces them, the Army regs ensure that military equipment will not be abused. What more could a soldier want?
Joel
PS
I have the Assembly Operations, GMC Trucks 6X6 Two unit Pack, and it illustrates assembly of both W/WN, and WO/WN models. When these manuals were written, they were not thinking 60 years later .The 60 years later bit is interesting, as the questions seem to escape the Military way of thinking and go the direction of so many imaginations.

[pfarber]

My question was nothing more than something I noticed while flipping through the ORD while on the crapper.

[joel gopan]

I did not know that. And will try to post in a manner that is more becoming to those who occupy the throne. I am used to that, I worked for a rummy retired Air Force Major who spent a minimum of 3 hours out of his 8 hour day on the toilet. He claimed to have trained to fly B-17s in WWII, but I just know his flying career was spent on the toilet trainer. We used to find his vodka nip bottles stashed all over the downstairs mens room. I was given the job of ordering the paint to redo the mens room. I picked "bottle green". The guy retired as a SAC Weather Officer. We called him "Stinky Stu".
Joel

[bobc]

Once my girls started getting around on thier own the only place I can read is in the john.

[armydriver]

Joel, I have the history of my truck. I am the 3rd owner of the truck. The truck was delivered to Kelly Field, Texas in August of 43 and sold into surplus in 62 to Keller Materials Company of San Antonio. I bought the truck from Mr. Keller in 99. The clutch had gone out and it had tranmission problems, so they just abaondoned it next to a sand pit south of town. It was still painted flight yellow with the hood numbers in black very faint from the years in the sun.
I made an obversation based upon my experience with military vehicles. I don't need you to tell me what I know or don't know. I realized that you are the expert on all of this, but I don't appreciate dispargeing remarks from you are anyone else. This site is and should be a place for the free exchange of thoughts and ideas without criticism.

[joel gopan]

Not intended to Insult, and your running board just went up another nickle, how can you accurately trace its assignment solely to Kelly, remember the Army was the agency that let the contract. You can trace your Chassis number to the Army contract in "GMC Trucks at War" There are all kinds of examples of Air Force acquiring Army Property, the Iowa Nebraska Air Guard had OD CCKWs at DOW AFB in Bangor Maine during their activation for the Korean War 51-53, they were used for everything including hauling the Softball team to the local ballpark for off duty recreation. Not trying to bust any bubbles, but it is hard to trace wartime duty of a CCKW. It was a long way from Detroit to Kelley, and Mine was issued to Denmark postwar, it is a 1941, but there is no way to document if it was issued straight from wartime motorpool in Europe in 45, or sent in the Danes as Military assistance in the 50s-60s. I have an excellant photo somewhere of Maine Army Guard CCKWs lined up at the local railroad yard being loaded onto gondola cars along with MBT Trailers for shipment to Europe in March 52. There are 1st Series thru late Open Cab models depicted. All have had their USA Numbers re stenciled using the 2" Brass stencils, and the unit markings have been painted out. The Guard was issued the Dodge G-507 1 1/2 ton 6X6 as replacement trucks until the new M-135 6X6 replacements arrived in 53. There is no way to trace this history, one would have had to have been there to witness it. It is easier to document a CCKW after being surplused, that before. I have been involved in the surplus truck business since 45, and the records are destroyed at the PDO at the time of sale, markings were supposed to be painted out, but sometimes were not. Some trucks surplused in Europe had the USA Registration Number stamped on the upper RH Frame horn or winch extension. My Danish CCKW has this.
Just to give you an idea as to USAAF wartime vehicles uses, There were in addition to Groups and Squadrons. Fainance Detachments, Dispensaries, MP Companies, Mobile repair Units, Ordnance Supply Maintenance Companies(OMC), Ordnance Ammunition companies (OAC), Army Postal Units (APU) Quartermaster Truck Companies (QMTC), QM Platoons Air depot Group (QMP) Reconnaissance Squadrons (RG) AAF photo intelligence detatchments (PID), Service Groups (SG) Service Squadrons(SS) Mobil Communications Squadrons (MCS) Signal Depot Companies(SDC) Troop carrier Squadrons (TCS) Weather Squadrons (WXS) Fighter Groups (FG) Bomber Groups (BG) Army Air Force Bands(AAFB) WAAC Post Headquarters companies (WAAC PHC) There are a few dozen more AAF types of units, from WWII and many were redesignated after Sept 1947 ahen Army AF became USAF. There are a lot to pick from and the records are gone.
Joel

[dr deuce]

One of my open cab trucks has a number on the side of the cab under the cut out that was made by carefully drilling a series of holes to form the number.

Someone told me (don't know if it is true or not) that did this in the Philipines so that if someone wanted to 'borrow' the truck (permantly) that they could not just repaint a new number on the hood.


Steve AKA Dr Deuce

[armydriver]

Thanks, however I still will tell you and anyone else the truck had Army Air Force and Air Force service here in the states. It never saw any type of combat service unless it was picking up drunk airmen in downtown San Antonio. Remember this place is know as Military City U.S.A. One Army fort and 4 Army Air fields, later Air Force Bases. Fort Sam Houston. Randolph Field, Brooks Field, Kelly Field and the San Antonio Aviation Cadet Center, now Lackland AFB.
Three stops on my truck. The U.S military, Keller Materials and me.