lock out hubs

[weberwlk]

looking for a set lock out hubs for a banjo axle. also i may be looking to getting some made.

PM me if you are interested in a new set if they can be made up. still lookin into cost and stuff. just wondering what kind of interest there would be. don't be shy

bill

[dr deuce]

A few of my friends and myself have been using dummy flanges which are basically just covers to replace the drive flanges. Going $$ is about $100 to $125 per set. Keep the real ones in a trashbag under the seat. The trucks are MUCH quieter. Takes all of 5 minutes to swap them.

On my cargo I have not even swapped them out for winter in the past 3 years.

We make the inside dimension of the dummys the same as the outside dimension of the real ones to make sure they clear the axles. And yes one guy has the on his splits

[dr deuce]

A few of my friends and myself have been using dummy flanges which are basically just covers to replace the drive flanges. Going $$ is about $100 to $125 per set. Keep the real ones in a trashbag under the seat. The trucks are MUCH quieter. Takes all of 5 minutes to swap them.

On my cargo I have not even swapped them out for winter in the past 3 years.

We make the inside dimension of the dummys the same as the outside dimension of the real ones to make sure they clear the axles. And yes one guy has the on his splits

[Corne Lauwerijssen]

I also have them on my split axle truck and it steers much
easier and it is quieter.I took a pair NOS flanges and machined the splines out, it was about 1 1/2 hour work.
I keep my originals in the toolbox.

Corné

[dr deuce]

I tried cutting out the splines on a set of banjo flanges originally and 'discovered' that the axle goes almost all the way thru. I finally cut the whoe center out of it and then welded on a patch. Looked terrible but worked. I don't use them anymore as all mine are now machineshop made.

[weberwlk]

i w us h tai why i am asking about hubs as i don't believe the flane without a bushing is good for the axeshaft. plus hubs would jus be nicer.

[joel gopan]

About $500.00 nicer, as that is what they sold for when they were available. I am with you, it is primative to just clean off the splines. Hubs are mostly hype thay are sort of a placebo thing, as the wear and tear is neglegible, the front Differentials have the same metallurgy as the rears, and they will usually go the life of the truck. The front axles are just coasting, and when the Gear Oil is up to temp, the resistance is negligible. We Sold new CJ Jeeps for 20 years, and the hubs were just a money making accessory. Look at all the MB/GPW M-38/M-38A1 Jeeps used by the worlds largest fleet. How many Warn, Dualmatic, Free Lock, Cutlas etc hubs have you seen on an issue Army Jeep? The front ends gave no probs as they were. The parts involved in the steering geometry have nothing to gain with or without hubs, and the U-Joints just coast with little load when in rear wheel drive. The transfer has little to gain with hubs, as only the end of the Transfer Case front axle output shaft is turning in rear wheel drive and it offers little resistance. I used to run up 50 to 60,000 miles on 50s and 60s CJ-5s as a Surveyor, and never used hubs, and the extra wear and tear was not detectable.

[dr deuce]

My take is driving 2000-3000 miles per year in my cargo cckw at 6.5 mpg on a good day not towing anything, any increase in mileage is good. In addition, like I said the difference in noise is quite sigificant. Ask yourself how many times do you use the front drive per year. My answer for the past few years is never. Maintenance is less. And anything that is quieter and saves me maintenance time and money is better. Turning parts for no reason and having to do additional maintenance on something I don't use is stoopid!

[joel gopan]

If you have noise before and none after, that is an indication something is worn and needs attention.
Joel

[weberwlk]

i have a problem with just cutting out the front spline. your running a steel hub against a steel axle shaft. This has always been a no no. The military did try this procedure and it worked. But the thing they did was to put a bushing in there for the axle to run in. made of aluminum or brass. plus a splined axle is not designed to run against the splines it will chew them up. so i can't see how this is good.

as far as the lock out hubs go they good in the fact :
they save horsepower
a little gas
a little maintenance
sacrificing convienience



i would like hubs for the sake of saving a little HP. I plan on using my truck and it will help me for certain aplications, I agree though if you want a original truck why have lock out hubs as the little bit of mileage they get it doesn't make alot of sense. 150$ for hubs is 70 gallons of gas. are you going to save that with a parade vehicle.

[Corne Lauwerijssen]

The hubs also save your tires a little, it steer significantly better.
Thus there is less friction.

Corné

[dr deuce]

>If you have noise before and none after, that is an indication something >is worn and needs attention.
>Joel

Not necessarily. Mine was due to the difference in tire size. There was a beat frequency sound you could hear. The backs are matched, but the fronts are either bigger (if new) or smaller if not-new. I get 30k miles on the back ones and 3-4k on the front ones. Nothing gets rotated to the front.

On banjo trucks, it saves a lot of maintenance if you drive a lot like I do.

[IHC NUT]

I have in my hands a box dated 1944 it contains two aluminum hubs for the Dodge 3/4 ton WC. They were also used on the M37.
They are Free wheeling hubs and have a bearing pressed in them to stop axle whip at the extreme end and to support the axle tip.
I have these on two of my 3/4 ton trucks and know of at least five other owners that have them as well. They show up on epay quite a bit.
Joel the military did design and run free wheeling hubs on some of there vehicles. I have a set of these for M38A1 that I got years ago from Vermont Commercial salvage (George).
I have in my WC-52 two stub axles with badly worn ends. why?
Because I bored two steel hubs out and drove it each summer for many years to Woodsons Bridge State Park from San Jose a round trip distance from my house of 420 miles takes about 6 hours each way and the average temp was 103 degrees.Believe me when I say steel on steel was not meant to be you need a bearing to support the stub axle. There is a lot of whip in the tip and it also pounds the opening of the spindle I know this becase it was hard to remove the nut after many trips when I went to service the bearings. The spindle opening was elongated. Do yourself a big favor and get the locking hubs.

Dave

[dr deuce]

That is why I make my hubs with nothing touching the stub axle. It just sits there. If you make just covers with the inside dimension so that it always clears the axle you will have no problem. I have been using mine for years now and many 1000's of miles

[joel gopan]

Dave, I am aware that the Army had the Non Driving Flanges for Jeep and the M-37, the intent was for administrative vehicles. There is a bulletin to that effect. They were rarely used , if ever. I have seen thousands of active military Jeeps (it doesn't mean I saw them all) but have never run across them . They are not listed in the SNLs, they were a MWO and not practical. I have some on my shelf as a "curio" as they were GI Issue.
Joel

[IHC NUT]

I have a question what is the average life span of a Military truck and what is the average milage on a Military truck when bought at auction.
I am not old enough to have seen WW2 trucks at auction but did go to a lot of auctions for M37 and M715 at Fort Ord and Camp Parks. I saw hundreds of these trucks. What do you spose the average milage was on an M37 for example?
Did the automotive engineers or the ordanace engineers plan on these Vehicle going 80,000+ highway miles at 48-50 MPH?

Dave

[dr deuce]

You have to remember what the roads were like in this country at the time they made the trucks.

There were no interstate highways (officially) till 1956. In Massachusetts, they had rte 2 which was considered a great road. It passed by Ft Devens and extended from Boston to NY. The max speed was probably 45 mph in a car in most places. Vehicles traveled a lot slower back then and long distances at high speeds were mostly done by trains.

The German Autoban was one of Hitler's secret weapons (secret to hiom too). When the GIs hit those roads, many times they removed the govenors from the engines and went as fast as the rig would go for as long as it would go. A good friend of mine told me how the the crews were going from vheicle to vehicle on the sode of the autoban replacing engines. Hundreds of them. Jeeps to tanks! All blown from over-reving!

[joel gopan]

The mileage was not a factor, maintenance was. It was not unusual to encounter an M-37 or M-38A1 with 70-90,000 miles is the 60s, Active units drove their vehicles daily. Maintenance kept these vehicles going,as as a component failed, whether it be Powertrain or Powerplant, it received maintenance. Tune ups and driver maintenance were done at unit level, engine or gearbox problems were done repaired at support units. Sometimes an entire assembly (Engine, Transmission, Differential) would be installed. hile at the support unit, upgrades would be done, latest engine, Starter, 60PSI Oil pressure Gauge and sender, etc, reinforcet Spare tire bracket, etc. The vehicles did not wear out from mileaage. There may be a point where vehicles required enough repairs to send it to a rebuild facility. What would end a vehicle prematurely, would be an accident, or training mishap. You will see MVs advertised with only "2000 miles" this was not always so, as the speedometer may have been changed because of a misdiagnosed broken cable. An experiences person is able to easily tell this as the replacement will be a different make than original, or a later type. The Army in the 60s started keeping maintenance records based on Equipment Serviceability Criteria, a complicated method of record keeping that records and weighs data as to condition of various components of a vehicle. The Army did factor in a service life when buying a series of vehicles, but maintenance was what determined the life of the vehicle. The M-38A1 for example was used approximate 18 years, and some M-37s lasted over 25 years. 2 1/2 and 5 Ton did better than that, many serving 40+ years. I realize I have just mentioned M-Series, but I was just giving an example. As for WWII types ,as well as M- series, sometimes they did not get the scheduled maintenance as programed by the military, many 4X4 and 6X6 trucke got minimum and mediocre maintence by the user, this was common with Air force and Navy trucks 6X6 and 4X4 as they were not directly involved with the Army maintenance and supply system, and their mechanics may not have been trained on those types. Jus because a person was a mechanic, did not mean he was proficient on the Army types.

[joel gopan]

The life of an engine on a particular type could vary as there were hot rod types and poor drivers. This would, in the case of M-37, cause early engine failure. The military did have rules and could punish a soldier for being stupid thru demotion or statement of charges. They had to catch him first.

[joel gopan]

It would be nice to have a vehicle have all its components have the same lifespan, but military vehicles do not always behave that way. High speed is tough on engines and transfers, Off road driving such as rough terrain in low range overrevs engines and may overstress portions of the driveline,especially if the vehicle is overloaded and the driver is not a profficient.