Sell Rotella T 30 weight... worst oil EVER

[pfarber]

I've been beating the forum up with my smokey GMC. Wanna guess what the problem was (hint: the topic).

After an unneeded head gasket and associated headaches the problem was Shell Rotella T 30 weight oil. It leaked into my combustion chambers (most likely via oil rings.

How do I know this? I switched to SHell Rotella T 15-40 weight and the smoke is COMPETELY GONE.

I'm probibly gonna keep the Shell oil (its $8 a gallon) but just use the multiviscosity oil.

I actually know why the 30 weight smokes, but its technical.

[armydriver]

Thanks for the info.

[Karoshi]

Ok pfarber, lets get technical, why?

[pfarber]

OK, Take a look at the SL rating on the back of the 30 weight oil

Now take a look at the SL ratings on the back of the multi viscosity oil.

Then Google what you find.

[Karoshi]

Well I'm not sure where you're leading too, but I took a peak over at Rotella webby and found this:

It dont kinda agree with what you're saying:

http://www.rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=53

[42cckw]

OK, Take a look at the SL rating on the back of the 30 weight oil

Now take a look at the SL ratings on the back of the multi viscosity oil.

Then Google what you find.

#*!_+++&^%$?<>"~!@(*&^%$#@)(*&?><"":{

[Degsy]

Are you sure that the Rotella you were using was suitable for petrol engines? As far as I know Shell no longer list Rotella in this country but in the past it was for diesel vehicles and I have used huge quantities in heavy trucks with no problems.

[Karoshi]

Degsy, a handy hint to oils is a spec with an "S" can be thought of as spark, and a rating with a "C" as compression. I.e petrol or diesel.

I suspect the "unsuitability" of the Rotella in the case mentioned was more to do with its high detergent factor being used in a fouled engine. Once the oil releases the carbon seal built up around the rings, the oil is allowed to blow by,...and bingo..... smoke.

Used in a good condition engine my experience is that Rotella is just fine.

Just my take.

[pfarber]

THe Shell Rotella T in the WHITE bottle is indeed for GASOLINE engines.

As for its 'high detergent factor, well, no. The compression in my cyliders is fine, both during and after the smokey oil. The Rotella multi viscosity oil has the same stuff in it, so it would still be leaking if that were the case.

Shells web site:

Shell Rotella® T Single Grade Oils are high quality single grade oils blended to provide excellent performance in diesel engines of many major manufacturers and in many gasoline, LPG or LNG engines (follow the correct performance grade/viscosity/temperature guidelines).

For cars, the ONLY specification it meets is SJ:

API CF-4, CF-2, CF, SJ

Valvolines web site defines the SJ spec generally as:

SJ: Introduced in 1996, this rating is for all automotive engines, early 2001 and older and is still current.

So one would think that its good to go, if you use the right viscosity.

For the MULTI VISCOSITY oil Shell says:

Shell Rotella® T SAE 15W-40 With Advanced Soot Control is a premium quality, heavy-duty multigrade oil for all-season use in diesel-powered or a mix of gasoline- and diesel-powered equipment. It meets or exceeds the warranty and service requirements of virtually all diesel and gasoline engine manufacturers – for both newer and older engines.

How is that? Well simply look at the SL rating:

API SL, SJ, SH

ANd here's Valvolines general definition:

SH: Now obsolete, SH was designed for 1996 and older engines.

SJ: Introduced in 1996, this rating is for all automotive engines, early 2001 and older and is still current.

SL: This rating is for all gasoline engines currently in use. SL oils are manufactured for better high-temperature deposit control and lower oil consumption. Some SL oils also qualify as "Energy Conserving." SL is the most current of all categories. Look shortly for the soon-to-be-announced SM category.

PLEASE NOTE: The S ratings have NOTHING, REPEAT NOTHING to do with 'additives'. The 'rating' an oil achives is after TESTING the oil in the lab and looking for deposits, wear, sludge, foaming, etc. If the oil is SL rated, then it performed to X level of satisification. How it got that ratng is not determined.

[pfarber]

One last thing... if you were planning on dumping Rotella T multi weight in your late model car DON'T DO IT.

Just about every gas engine since 2000-ish requires 5W-30 weight oil. The precision fit of new engines will not last with 15-40 weight oil.

I remeber as a kid the oil was ALWAYS 10W-40 in dads cars. NO MORE! 5-30 is the new 'standard' viscosity.

[Degsy]

Although I know a collector in this country with many CCKW's who uses a 20/50 multigrade and says he has never had any problems I will stick to Morris Supreme 30. I don't believe in using modern multigrades with detergents in 60 plus year old designs whatever the large multi-national oil companies might claim.

[Degsy]

Karoshi, that's a handy tip, something that had just never dawned on me.
Although I don't know if it is available outside the UK, Morris Lubricants website is well worth a look for anybody operating vehicles.

[pfarber]

You can use any motor oil you want.. since you *believe* that straight 30 weight you are using works, fine. On low milage, low performace engines it will not matter.

If you are so confident that your motor oil is uber, then dump it into your modern car. Let me know how much the bill is when it dies a horrible death.

Again, not wanting to change minds, as your beliefs are just that, but there ARE better oils, and as I Have found out Rotella T 30 wieght is not one of them.

[Karoshi]

So when are we going to get on to the technical bit ? or was that it ?

For the sake of us across the pond that dont have ready access to the grades you mentioned, what are the ratings we're looking for ? and for what are we to Google?

Have I missed something here, we seem to be talking about oil use in modern cars, when I thought we started off CCKW.

[Degsy]

Yep, I was thinking CCKW, if I was talking modern then we'd be into the realms of fully synth and semi synth but this is a CCKW forum unless I've also missed something :? :)

[pfarber]

I doubt that you folks 'across the pond' will have API specifications on your oil.... AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE probibly has little clout in the UK.

You did read my above post about the SL rating... and the part that says it defines specs for LOWER OIL CONSUMPTION? IT right above this post, about 4 5 inches.

If you know what Google is, then you can use it to learn more about the oil specifications, I am not about to type the VOLUMES of information that is ALREADY available, for free, on the Internet.

As for the 'jist', the Shell Rotella 30 weight oil meets one out of date specifications for API 'S' catagories. The Rotella single weight line is for primarilly Deisel and HEAVY DUTY (a CCKW is NOT anything close to a heavy duty engine) motors.

Religion, politics, and engine oil are the three most difficult topics to discuss as people put their 'feelings' about an oil above what proven scientific facts bear out. I bet there are dozens of misconcptions about synthetic oil you KNOW are right, but are easily proven wrong.

You 'think' and 'feel' that Rotella 30 wight is doing good in your engine, OK, thats nice. I am not here to change minds.. just point out the facts.

[Degsy]

pfarber wrote

The Rotella single weight line is for primarilly Deisel and HEAVY DUTY (a CCKW is NOT anything close to a heavy duty engine) motors.

[/quote]

I rest my case.

[pfarber]

You think that a GMC 270 is a heavy duty motor?

It may be UNDERPOWERED, and have a lot of load on it, but thats not what makes a motor 'Heavy Duty'.

The 270 is a low compression, low HP, low torque gasoline engine. Nothing about that is debateable. Stock compression ratio is less than 7 to 1.

Where is the heavy duty?

[42cckw]

[quote="pfarber"]You think that a GMC 270 is a heavy duty motor?

YES I think the gmc 270 was and is a heavy duty motor in its day. The trouble is your comparing it to todays engines,When the engine was developed it was the largest truck engine GMC built, I think that makes it heavy duty for its time. It was designed to power a 2 1/2 ton 11,000 lb truck for the US Army under very severe conditions, Yes I think it is a heavy duty motor. Just like I think the P-51 was the best air superiority fighter of its day but I don't think it would stand a chance against an F-15

[dr deuce]

Actually, the 270 was the largest engine GMC produced in that SERIES of engines; 228, 248, 256, 270 and later the 302.

The next series enginers were the 278 and 308. They were however about 4" longer than the 270 series and when the Army wanted a bigger engine after the ACKWX, GMC revised the 256 cid engine to produce the 270 cid engine and did it in 19 days!

GMC made engines

CID Type Years Bore Stroke HP
228 OHV 1939-46 3 9/16 3 13/16 80@3000
" OHV 1941-46 3 9/16 3 13/16 61@2800
" OHV 1941-46 3 9/16 3 13/16 76@3000
248 OHV 1940-46 3 23/32 3 13/16 88@3000
236 OHV 1941-46 3 5/8 3 13/16 87@3000
256 OHV 1941-46 3 25/32 3 13/16 91@3000
270 OHV 1941-46 3 25/32 4 94@2800
302 OHV 4 4
278 OHV 1940-46 3 5/8 4 1/2 100@2900
308 OHV 1939-46 3 13/16 4 1/2 110@2800
361 OHV 1939-46 4 1/8 4 1/2 122@2800
426 OHV 1939-46 4 1/4 5 145@2700
451 OHV 1939-46 4 3/8 5 146@2400
477 OHV 1941-46 4 1/2 5 136.5@2400